Digital AF - Episode 10: Why Klaviyo Should Be Your Email Marketing Platform

Episode 10
Episode 10
In today's episode of Digital AF, Brendan our Managing Director sits down with some of our in-house digital marketing specialists to discuss Klaviyo, an email marketing platform that we love and use daily. Listen to today's episode to hear the importance of email marketing and why Klaviyo should be your email marketing platform of choice.
In today's episode of Digital AF, Brendan our Managing Director sits down with some of our in-house digital marketing specialists to discuss Klaviyo, an email marketing platform that we love and use daily. Listen to today's episode to hear the importance of email marketing and why Klaviyo should be your email marketing platform of choice.
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Brendan (00:00):

Welcome to this episode of Digital AF. I'm Brendan, and today we're talking about everything to do with email marketing. Most importantly, what you need to be doing in your business right now. Email marketing has been around for years, but lost its shine about the same time Instagram took off. Whilst it might not have the immediate gratification of social media, building a list is one of the best marketing activities a business can do. At AF we've always been big believers in email marketing. But having a big list is one thing, but what you do with it is what counts. From Salesforce to Mail Chimp, Klaviyo to HubSpot, we'll tell you which platform you use, how and why. Let's get into it.

Speaker 2 (00:33):

Digital AF, the digital marketing podcast that features real conversations from those who live and breathe the digital agency life. April Ford Digital Agency shares their tips, tricks and exposes the truth about what works and what doesn't. Welcome to digital AF. Let's get into it.

Brendan (01:01):

Today. I'm lucky enough to have our head of advertising, Gemma Graye...

Gemma (01:03):

Hey, Brendan.

Brendan (01:04):

And account executive, Madi Brown...

Madi (01:06):

Hello.

Brendan (01:07):

Joining me. April is not here. She's been brave enough to let me run the podcast this week, so it should be fun. So I want to deal with the elephant in the room before we get into it. Is it Klaviyo, Klaviyo, what is it? What do you guys say?

Madi (01:19):

Klaviyo. We've recently discovered that it's Klaviyo, which is a bit upsetting because we've been saying Klaviyo.

Brendan (01:27):

Yeah, but they say Klaviyo in America.

Madi (01:28):

Yeah. Is it because of the accent? We're not sure. We've been trying to find YouTube videos of Australians saying it, but had no luck.

Brendan (01:34):

Right. So for those who don't know what Klaviyo is, it's an email marketing platform that we continuously pronounce incorrectly, according to their latest YouTube video. But given we're in Australia, I think Klaviyo is probably something we're going to continue to roll with.

Brendan (01:49):

Gem, what do you reckon?

Gemma (01:50):

Yeah, whatever. Let's make it official.

Brendan (01:52):

Okay, cool. So it's like tomato, tomato, whatever you want to call it. So want to firstly start with why a business should be doing email marketing. And I want each of your opinions on it. Madi?

Madi (02:05):

There are so many reasons why businesses should be doing email marketing. One of them is that if someone subscribed to your list it means there's probably a really good chance that they're interested in your business. So it's a really good way to reach those people.

Brendan (02:22):

First of all, they subscribe to your list. Why are they going to subscribe to your list?

Madi (02:25):

Because you've given them a good reason. And you've asked the right person.

Brendan (02:29):

And is that literally just like announcement bar on your website that says subscribe here?

Madi (02:33):

Sometimes, but usually it takes a little bit more than that. I think it needs to be meaningful why you're asking someone to join your list. And that's also why it needs to be the right person that you're asking.

Brendan (02:41):

Like incentivising him?

Madi (02:42):

Yeah, sometimes incentivising. There's also other reasons. People genuinely want to follow some brands and businesses for the information that they provide their customers. So it doesn't always have to be an incentive, as in a discount. That definitely works.

Brendan (02:56):

What about you Gem?

Gemma (02:57):

Well, I think it's another touchpoint, and we know that for any kind of advertising or marketing strategy to be successful you need multiple touchpoints. So it supports all of your other platforms, your advertising, your website, and everything else that you're doing. It's another touchpoint to get to those existing customers or potential customers that have just signed up for a list.

Brendan (03:23):

Yeah. So true. It's interesting, because, I mean, we can use April Ford as an example. People often sign up for a digital audit in our business and they get onto our list and then get our monthly EDM. They can sit on that list for years and then I find all of a sudden they'll start opening more regularly and returning because we can see it in HubSpot, which is the CRM system we use, opening email, EDMs we've sent out. And April makes me call them back. So anyone is opening an email regularly I have to call, which is fun, but it's a good example of where you're building a list and that list can return a client, like a customer, to you months, years later. Doesn't just have to be they signed up today and they become a client tomorrow.

Brendan (04:07):

What about in eCommerce, because obviously, that's something you guys work in a lot? People are obviously buying a product and then they're ending up on a list, and then what sort of stuff are they getting sent?

Madi (04:15):

Well, it gives you an opportunity to, I guess, cross-sell, upsell, send them reminders of when a product is back in stock, suggest different products, let them know about new collection launches, sales or promotions, and offer them birthday offers, all sorts of stuff.

Brendan (04:39):

That's a good point because, Mads, you've got clients who do a heap of pre-release, Hey?

Madi (04:43):

Yes, I do.

Brendan (04:43):

And that pre-release sells out pretty much straight away every time they send an email out for it?

Madi (04:48):

Well it goes off, yeah. It's one of the biggest revenue streams in their marketing strategy.

Brendan (04:53):

Big pillar for them.

Madi (04:54):

Just to add to what Gemma's saying, it increases the overall lifetime value of your customer. It's one of the ways to increase the overall value because once you've got them in your list, if it's done well, you can encourage them to continue purchasing and stay a loyal customer.

Brendan (05:13):

So in terms of the cost of email marketing compared to say advertising, because this is one thing that a lot of businesses don't necessarily think about when they think about email marketing the cost of email marketing is significantly less than the cost of say, continuously having to run ads. And obviously, you still have to run ads, but ultimately if you are spending a bucket load of money on client acquisition or customer acquisition and then they go into a list, when you sell through that list it becomes inherently cheaper to convert them to a customer than what it would be if you're continually serving ads to them. Is that a fair comment?

Madi (05:44):

Think it's true in some cases. And as a really general rule, if and when you are converting off your emails, and that happens when you're doing it right, yes, it works out cheaper than your advertising budget.

Brendan (05:57):

And this is something we're talking specifically about selling someone something, so e-com is probably more geared towards that. But ultimately email marketing doesn't just have to be sales-based emails, it can be automations as well, which is a big part of what you are working with a lot of clients on. So what is an example of an automation that you set up? And why would you do it as well?

Madi (06:22):

So I like to think about it logically and in order of how someone will receive these. So one of the main ones that everyone would be really familiar with, regardless of why you're signing up to a list is a welcome flow. So what that is it's basically an automated email that comes after you've subscribed. So they're offering an incentive. That's usually where you receive that. You definitely don't need it to be an incentive email. It can definitely just be a touchpoint with your customer to add value. A few of the businesses that we do this for, it's a good chance to include more information about the business. So whether you include links to their blogs or their FAQs, or let them know how the business works, let them know how to do business with them, that's a really good opportunity to warm them up to your business a little bit more in a welcome flow. Even if someone is offering an incentive, we would generally have more than one email in the flow to include those additional things that I was just talking about as well.

Brendan (07:24):

When you say welcome flow, are you talking about it could be two, three or four or five emails, or something like that?

Madi (07:28):

Yeah. It can be. For sure.

Brendan (07:29):

And is that relevant to what it is that you are selling?

Madi (07:32):

Yeah.

Brendan (07:32):

So let's say it's a medical procedure, then the content of those emails are going to be very, very different to someone who's buying a piece of furniture, right?

Madi (07:39):

Yes.

Brendan (07:40):

So if we talk about email marketing, yes, it can be a sales-based tool, but it also can be a delivery vehicle for information.

Madi (07:48):

Yeah. And that comes back to, I guess my one reason that I gave before, why people should do email marketing is, these are people who are actively seeking to know more, or engage with you more or have that additional touchpoint, like what Gem said. So it's the perfect opportunity to give them that information because they want it, they want to know about it.

Brendan (08:09):

Actually, that's an interesting segue into data segmentation, because this is something that you obviously use heavily in advertising, Gem. Madi is saying when someone wants something more or you're talking about user behaviour, how does segmentation tie into that?

Gemma (08:23):

Well, inside of Klaviyo you can obviously create all of the segments you can possibly dream up of what someone has done on a website, or viewed, or touched, or added to cart, or what form they've filled in, how many days since they were last on the website, whatever, you can create it. And we integrate all of those segments of people over to advertising platforms and then we can use that to get really granular and target the right type of people with the right creative, the right copy, and make sure we're serving the right ads to people that are currently looking at that product. Or we know it's been so long since they've been on the website and they need a reminder to get back there, or we just get really targeted with what we're serving.

Brendan (09:18):

So you can really integrate your advertising and your email marketing and how users are using the website together to create an overall user experience.

Gemma (09:26):

Yeah, that's right. So it makes advertising a lot more personalised.

Brendan (09:30):

You can do that with other things, like HubSpot, for example, which costs a lot more than say, Klaviyo. But you can't really do that with Mailchimp. It's not as responsive as that is. It's not as powerful.

Madi (09:39):

It doesn't collect as much data, audience data, on the website. You can definitely create segments and live lists and things like that with Mailchimp, but it's just not as-

Brendan (09:50):

Sophisticated?

Madi (09:50):

Detailed or sophisticated as Klaviyo. It also doesn't have the same connections with Ad Manager and all of that sort of stuff.

Gemma (09:58):

Yeah, the integration is a lot less user-friendly.

Madi (10:01):

You can connect lists two ways, but it's just not as dynamic.

Brendan (10:05):

It's interesting though, Mailchimp is probably the most popular, probably because it was free up until a certain point, in terms of the number of people on your list.

Madi (10:12):

Well, and it's been around for a while.

Brendan (10:14):

Yeah. True.

Madi (10:15):

And it's got a really easy email builder and all of that sort of stuff. But I think there are more platforms that are catching up to it.

Brendan (10:21):

But if you've got a half decent size list and you're using Mailchimp, you're probably missing a lot of opportunity purely because it just isn't a powerful enough system to do what you could be doing, versus if you had it, say in Klaviyo. Correct?

Madi (10:32):

Yeah. 100%.

Brendan (10:33):

So first-party data is something we've been talking heaps about lately, and obviously there are a heap of changes coming up. iOS was updated, which took away a heap of accesses in terms of first-party data to advertisers. Googles removing cookies. Privacy is obviously getting tighter and tighter and tighter. Gem, obviously you can use an email marketing system, like Klaviyo, however you want to say it, for first-party data collection. Right?

Gemma (10:56):

Yeah. That's right. So you invest in a platform, like Klaviyo, and put it on your website. Then it starts generating data and tracking the events that people are doing on your website. So that's things like what pages they've viewed, whether they've added something to cart, what product collections they've viewed, all that sort of stuff. And then it's giving you some of the power back that we used to rely on third-party data for. So third-party data are tools like a Facebook pixel, which is owned by Facebook, which you put on your website. It generates the data for you. You can see that data and the stuff that you've tracked inside that platform only. Whereas with first-party data, with a tool like Klaviyo, you're generating data on your website. And you own that data inside the platform, which you can then integrate with your other marketing and advertising platforms, like Google, for instance.

Brendan (12:01):

Yeah. Right. So you can collect data using Klaviyo and then run different ad types and ad sequences using Google Ads, using the data segmentation from your first-party data collection.

Gemma (12:13):

Yeah, that's right.

Brendan (12:14):

That's pretty cool. That's very cool. And actually, when you said events, what do you mean by that? Let's assume someone doesn't know what an event is on the website.

Gemma (12:20):

So it's basically an action that someone has done on your website.

Brendan (12:27):

Like clicked a button?

Gemma (12:28):

Yeah, clicked a button, viewed a certain page, viewed a certain collection if we're talking about eCommerce. It's allowing you to see what parts of a website a customer has interacted with.

Brendan (12:41):

Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. And then we've talked a little bit about Klaviyo, but also we should just mention there are different options, but we do have a personal preference which we'll talk about in a second.

Brendan (12:52):

Mads, you obviously have done a heap of work with HubSpot before. April has done a heap of work with HubSpot, Salesforce, Keap, or Infusionsoft is what it used to be known. Obviously, there's Mailchimp. If we talk about some of those platforms, first of all, what's the cost difference between Klaviyo and HubSpot?

Madi (13:10):

HubSpot is much more expensive per number of contacts than what Klaviyo is.

Brendan (13:19):

How much? If we were to compare HubSpot and Klaviyo, how much a month would someone spend typically on a HubSpot subscription versus a Klaviyo subscription if they had 20K in their list?

Madi (13:30):

So Klaviyo would be hundreds, and HubSpot would be thousands.

Brendan (13:35):

Yeah, right, So it's massive.

Madi (13:37):

Yeah. Per contact cost between HubSpot and Klaviyo is so different, especially for the subscription you would need in HubSpot to be able to achieve the same kind of automation that you can do in Klaviyo or the same segmentation in Klaviyo. To be honest, I would only really ever recommend HubSpot marketing if someone was using HubSpot as their sales pipeline.

Brendan (14:03):

Yeah. And if we think of HubSpot, Salesforce, even Keap, in those similar realms.

Madi (14:10):

CRM. Yeah.

Brendan (14:12):

Obviously very, very powerful CRMs, but very, very expensive for what they are. And for the purposes of email marketing, they're actually probably not the best fit. They might be a better CRM, but they actually aren't better at email marketing. Is that a fair point?

Madi (14:26):

Exactly. Yeah. So I think because they've been built around a sales process or a lead follow-up or a lead funnel, however, you want to call it, they're pretty limited with the kind of things that you could do based around people's actions on a website. So you can definitely trigger things in HubSpot if you've got someone in your CRM, based on how many times they've visited a page or a website or anything along those lines, but you can't get as granular as what you can with Klaviyo, with this person's been to my website 10 times in 30 days, so I know they're keen.

Brendan (15:03):

They're engaged.

Madi (15:04):

They're engaged. So the automation that you can achieve in HubSpot and the data that you can use in HubSpot is definitely built around a sales process, a lead flow, rather than accommodating anything to do with eCommerce. Whereas, I think Klaviyo, you can do both. You can design those lead follow-ups within Klaviyo, but you can also get way more granular with how people are behaving on your website and when you follow them up, and all of that sort of stuff.

Brendan (15:34):

And we're not exactly the Klaviyo cheer squad here because obviously we do a heap of work in HubSpot as well, but when it comes to this sort of thing, like email marketing, I think it's fair to say that Klaviyo is the best in class right now, and is going to be for a long, long time because they're investing so much in the platform and will probably squash Mailchimp as the platform of choice for a lot of businesses moving forward. Would you agree with that, Gem?

Gemma (15:57):

Yeah, 100%.

Brendan (15:58):

Because it provides almost that linkage between data segmentation, advertising, email marketing and automation, that just is not offered in something like Mailchimp. It's not really even offered in the same way. You can't send really beautiful emails out of Salesforce, for example. Or back in the day, when Keap was Infusionsoft it had some pretty cool automations in there, but for the cost of what you've got to spend on those platforms now, I don't think it compares to what you can do or achieve using something like Klaviyo, which you're right, someone's only going to spend 100 to 300. If you had a big list you might spend a thousand bucks a month, but if you've got a list North of 100,000 or 200,000 people, you might spend $1,000 a month. Is that about right? Somewhere thereabouts?

Brendan (16:43):

So the reality is the cost versus return is so much better with Klaviyo, and it would be our recommendation to most clients for what they need for their marketing needs.

Madi (16:52):

Absolutely.

Brendan (16:53):

So just want to quickly talk about list size, or lists or data. And Madi, in particular, you cop this like I do, where we catch up with a new client and they're like, I've got this giant list. They've got this huge database and it's literally covered in cobwebs. It's like 20,000 people that have collected over 20 years in business that they haven't sent anything to for years and they're hoping to dump it into a new email marketing system and send something out. (a) Is that a good idea? And (b) What should you do if it's not a good idea?

Madi (17:22):

So you have to reengage them in some way. Sometimes we'll suggest that we put them into Ads as a list so we can start warming them up.

Brendan (17:30):

So drop the list into Ads first, get an engaged audience, and then actually start emailing them.

Madi (17:35):

Yeah. That's one of the things that I would suggest we do. Because you still own that data, we can still do stuff with it. When you put a large list into a new platform you are at risk of being flagged as junk and spam. I would suggest cleaning your list before putting it into a new platform, which is usually what I recommend. So before actually moving it work out which of your contacts are still engaged, or have engaged with you in the past, or have done business with you in the past, and trim off the rest. People don't like doing that.

Brendan (18:11):

No, they don't, because they judge their success based on the size of that.

Madi (18:14):

Yeah. And I mean, use the rest of that data to create an Ad audience or a Lookalike audience, or something along those lines.

Brendan (18:22):

So still utilise it, just utilise it differently.

Madi (18:22):

Still utilise it. Or use your old platform to try and re-engage with them before you put them into your new platform. You could basically do a blanket campaign to try and get people to reengage with you. So being Klaviyo's cheer squad, again, they have some really good suggestions around basically re-engaging a cold audience and suggestions around what types of campaigns you can serve them in an email that will get them clicking, and back to your website, and all of that sort of stuff, because then that's re-engaging people and they're not cold and dead anymore. However, I think that it's important to basically only carry over contacts that you know are warm still before you start with a new platform.

Brendan (19:07):

So don't put dirty data in your database.

Madi (19:08):

Yes.

Brendan (19:09):

And is it about the size of your list, or what you do with it?

Madi (19:12):

Both.

Brendan (19:13):

Okay. Tell me more.

Madi (19:14):

No, it's what you do with it.

Brendan (19:16):

Right. Okay. But realistically, there is a certain tipping point where you start to see a really strong return. You think of the difference when someone's got, say 2,000 people on a list versus someone who's got 100,000 people on a list. What they achieve, particularly in eCommerce, what they achieve out at list is mind-bogglingly different, right?

Madi (19:31):

Yeah, 100%. So comparatively, I'll talk about them very generally. I won't name names, but we've got two eCommerce brands. They sell different products, but they're both still eCommerce. One has a 16 to 20,000 list. The other has closer to 100,000. The one with 16 to 20,000, I don't know exactly where it is at the moment, it grows really fast. They will get off their emails anywhere from five grand to 10 grand a fortnight in direct sales from emails because they have a really, really quality list, and what they see in their list is exactly what they want to see. So it's around new product releases and sales and things like that. And they have told these people that if they subscribe that's what they'll get. So it's super relevant to them. Whereas the other one that has a larger list, the list isn't bad, it's still a really, really great list and it's very engaged, but they just don't get as much of a return in sales directly from emails. However, it does help our ads. So I mean, there's that cross-marketing benefit.

Brendan (20:44):

So in that case, the benefit for that client with the big list is actually generating sales off the ads, not off the list.

Madi (20:51):

Yeah. It's that other touch point that helps other marketing activities.

Brendan (20:55):

Which to throw another client in the mix there, there's another client we have, who's got a hundred and something thousand, maybe 150,000, something like that, on their list. And they would do hundreds of thousands of dollars every EDM they send out for their list. Super engaged audience, low-value product, but something that you can buy multiple times a year. I like how you're trying to figure out who it is.

Brendan (21:15):

And it's not actually one of your clients, anyways. But I mean, it's a good example where we use a lot. Yes, we sell off their ads, but we also grow their list massively. And the big benefit for them is they're growing probably a third of their revenue gap comes out of their list now, as opposed to relying so heavily on paid advertising or organic or whatever it might be. So it's horses for courses, but at the end of the day, it's not the size of the list is what you do with it that counts.

Brendan (21:42):

And then, I guess the other thing that I want to understand is from a reporting and a data perspective, like analysing is something working or not, if we stick to Klaviyo, what sort of data can you pull out off the back of it? You look for different stuff when you look in the back of Klaviyo, when you're running ads, Gem. What are you sort of looking for?

Gemma (22:00):

I'm basically looking for segments I can create to back up and support the exact same segments that I would want to use in advertising platforms where I've lost data to third-party data issues.

Brendan (22:17):

Yeah. Right. Okay, cool.

Gemma (22:17):

So that can change all of the time. As an advertising strategy changes I then jump back into Klaviyo and create new segments to match whatever data I need for ads.

Brendan (22:30):

Okay. What about you, Mads?

Madi (22:31):

I do similar, but a lot of the time I play around with what segments I can create. So for every client it's different. So an engaged audience for someone who has a product that you might only buy every six months as opposed to every fortnight, their life cycle of what you would call an engaged audience is obviously a larger timeframe. So a lot of the segmenting we do is what has this person done in this amount of time and what do we call that person? So I do a lot of trialing with that sort of stuff between the different clients that we look at and basically try to match that up with what Gem is doing with ads to make sure that we've got automations running to those particular segments, and it's relating back to what ads those people would be getting as well.

Brendan (23:24):

So interesting, because talking to you two reminds me of how much performance marketing is so much of what you guys do, where it's literally driving every single sale, every single cent that you can squeeze out of a customer. Whereas if I look at some other areas in the business and we pull in say, Kyle, who is an account executive, and talk to him about how he's using email marketing he's often using it to build value in a brand because he's trying to position the price of a product to an audience. So it's a different objective. But it's just interesting to talk about the different ways that you use it and how someone might use for performance marketing and someone else might use it for brand equity purposes. I guess, as an agency, we use Klaviyo ourselves. We've used HubSpot as a CRM. We've used Mailchimp before. April has worked on gigantic clients in Salesforce. In fact, April's background was all about building and implementing CRMs in highly complicated automation sequences in email marketing. That was what she spent the first 10 years of her career doing.

Brendan (24:21):

I think when we look at where we're at today, email marketing has become not popular again, but more important than ever, if that makes sense because for the last few years people have just been so addicted to social, running Facebook and Instagram ads and had some great success there. They've forgotten about email marketing, and particularly with the younger audiences. Whereas I think if a lot of the older audiences have gotten, when I say older I don't mean old, I mean, someone who might be 50, who owns a decent-sized company, who believes in list building because he knows that a list will outlive a trend, and that list is an asset that they can grow on year on year out. But I look at what we can do now with email marketing systems in terms of the integrations with advertising, obviously segmentation and then even behavioural responses based on what they're doing on a website, whether it be email, even SMS, because obviously, you can fire that out of Klaviyo, for example.

Brendan (25:15):

These things all sound quite complicated to the average business owner or marketing manager. So when it comes to simplicity, we talked about a welcome sequence before, but a lot of the time you're just putting three, five or seven-part automation sequences in place for clients, Mads. It can be as simple as that and have a tangible impact. Is that something you would recommend for a client who isn't doing anything currently email marketing-wise?

Madi (25:40):

Would I recommend a welcome flow?

Brendan (25:43):

Well, just a simple welcome flow. And then keeping, I guess what they're doing simple. It doesn't have to be hugely complex. Doesn't have to be like this mad matrix of automations, does it?

Madi (25:54):

So if I was to recommend or set up a really, I guess entry level strategy, I would 100% have a welcome flow if we're driving lead capture, which we would be if we're suggesting to do email marketing. So I think that's really important because it's your first touch point with that person who's deciding to join your list. Second to that, if they have a website, which pretty much every single business should and does whether they're service base or eCommerce, I really see the power in an abandoned browse sequence. An abandoned browse is basically if one of your subscribers has gone onto your website X amount of times, it could even just be once, but they don't check out or they don't do whatever it is your conversion is, which that could be a lead inquiry or something along those lines, you basically automate an email that goes to them and says, "Hey, we saw you were here."

Madi (26:53):

If it was eCommerce, you can dynamically pull through the category or the products that they've looked at and basically say, "Hey, we saw you were on our site. This is what you're looking at. Do you want to look at it again?" It's also a really good chance to highlight your point of difference and your unique selling points at that stage, to basically convince them to do business with you. If you were a service-based business, same thing. It's a good chance to give them additional information about your business that helps them to make a decision. So we often put testimonials, social proof, all of that sort of stuff in these types of emails, because we know that when someone's on the site they're obviously interested and you want to capture them at that point. We see a lot of conversions or re-engagement from these types of emails. And again, it's one of the more basic email automations that you can set up.

Madi (27:47):

So at a minimum, I would suggest welcome and abandon browse, but then also a meaningful newsletter strategy. So depending on what the business is, who your audience is, what you're selling, you could have a newsletter strategy that goes on a weekly basis, fortnightly, monthly, every two months, every six months, whatever it might be, but making sure that it's meaningful because if you are consistent with your emailing, your list will stay engaged.

Brendan (28:17):

The only thing I would probably add to that is once someone becomes a customer using something like Klaviyo as an educational or a user experience, customer experience platform, is also I think critical. So when someone's bought something, notifying them, (a) saying, thank you for the business. And then also providing relevant information as to-

Madi (28:38):

Post-purchase?

Brendan (28:39):

Yeah. Post-purchase or post engagement. What's going to happen next when it's likely to arrive, what the next steps are, and what information do they need to provide for say onboarding in our case, or for someone else who might be preparing for surgery they're going to have if it's something medical. Or any kind of education you can provide a client post-purchase to make the user experience more enjoyable and educational for the client, I think is also a critical component. So childcare's a good example where, say someone enrols, what happens next? It's a really, really, really great place to house information and educate and communicate with your customer base as well.

Brendan (29:16):

And then on the advertising side of things, Gem, what would be some of the minimum requirements you would want to see someone do from an ad perspective if they were using something like Klaviyo?

Gemma (29:25):

Just basically automations and flows that support that end user action that we're trying to achieve in advertising. So that might be getting someone to complete a purchase, so thinking about those things like an abandoned cart, email, all of that sort of stuff that's aligned with the end-

Brendan (29:45):

And to make life really, really easy, what we've done is if someone is interested in learning more about how email marketing can help them or wants to put its particular system in place, I mean, obviously we're going to recommend Klaviyo for a lot of clients because this is the best option. We have a really simple service you can go through where we'll do a discovery session, understand exactly what you need to be doing, and then advise you on which email flows or sequences you need to put in place. We'll build them out for you and even do all the creative and design as well.

Brendan (30:11):

So if someone does want to learn more about that, just jump on the website. My details are there. I'm happy to help you in any way I can. And guys, that's been really, really awesome. I really appreciate your time and look forward to chatting with you next time.

Gemma (30:22):

Thanks Brendan.

Madi (30:22):

Bye.

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April Ford

Digital AF - Episode 10: Why Klaviyo Should Be Your Email Marketing Platform

April Ford
July 26, 2022
April Ford Icon
Podcast

Digital AF - Episode 10: Why Klaviyo Should Be Your Email Marketing Platform

Podcast

Digital AF - Episode 10: Why Klaviyo Should Be Your Email Marketing Platform

Listen Now

Author

April Ford
July 26, 2022

Listen Now

Podcast

Episode 10

Digital AF - Episode 10: Why Klaviyo Should Be Your Email Marketing Platform

In today's episode of Digital AF, Brendan our Managing Director sits down with some of our in-house digital marketing specialists to discuss Klaviyo, an email marketing platform that we love and use daily. Listen to today's episode to hear the importance of email marketing and why Klaviyo should be your email marketing platform of choice.

Author

April Ford

July 26, 2022

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Episode Transcript

Brendan (00:00):

Welcome to this episode of Digital AF. I'm Brendan, and today we're talking about everything to do with email marketing. Most importantly, what you need to be doing in your business right now. Email marketing has been around for years, but lost its shine about the same time Instagram took off. Whilst it might not have the immediate gratification of social media, building a list is one of the best marketing activities a business can do. At AF we've always been big believers in email marketing. But having a big list is one thing, but what you do with it is what counts. From Salesforce to Mail Chimp, Klaviyo to HubSpot, we'll tell you which platform you use, how and why. Let's get into it.

Speaker 2 (00:33):

Digital AF, the digital marketing podcast that features real conversations from those who live and breathe the digital agency life. April Ford Digital Agency shares their tips, tricks and exposes the truth about what works and what doesn't. Welcome to digital AF. Let's get into it.

Brendan (01:01):

Today. I'm lucky enough to have our head of advertising, Gemma Graye...

Gemma (01:03):

Hey, Brendan.

Brendan (01:04):

And account executive, Madi Brown...

Madi (01:06):

Hello.

Brendan (01:07):

Joining me. April is not here. She's been brave enough to let me run the podcast this week, so it should be fun. So I want to deal with the elephant in the room before we get into it. Is it Klaviyo, Klaviyo, what is it? What do you guys say?

Madi (01:19):

Klaviyo. We've recently discovered that it's Klaviyo, which is a bit upsetting because we've been saying Klaviyo.

Brendan (01:27):

Yeah, but they say Klaviyo in America.

Madi (01:28):

Yeah. Is it because of the accent? We're not sure. We've been trying to find YouTube videos of Australians saying it, but had no luck.

Brendan (01:34):

Right. So for those who don't know what Klaviyo is, it's an email marketing platform that we continuously pronounce incorrectly, according to their latest YouTube video. But given we're in Australia, I think Klaviyo is probably something we're going to continue to roll with.

Brendan (01:49):

Gem, what do you reckon?

Gemma (01:50):

Yeah, whatever. Let's make it official.

Brendan (01:52):

Okay, cool. So it's like tomato, tomato, whatever you want to call it. So want to firstly start with why a business should be doing email marketing. And I want each of your opinions on it. Madi?

Madi (02:05):

There are so many reasons why businesses should be doing email marketing. One of them is that if someone subscribed to your list it means there's probably a really good chance that they're interested in your business. So it's a really good way to reach those people.

Brendan (02:22):

First of all, they subscribe to your list. Why are they going to subscribe to your list?

Madi (02:25):

Because you've given them a good reason. And you've asked the right person.

Brendan (02:29):

And is that literally just like announcement bar on your website that says subscribe here?

Madi (02:33):

Sometimes, but usually it takes a little bit more than that. I think it needs to be meaningful why you're asking someone to join your list. And that's also why it needs to be the right person that you're asking.

Brendan (02:41):

Like incentivising him?

Madi (02:42):

Yeah, sometimes incentivising. There's also other reasons. People genuinely want to follow some brands and businesses for the information that they provide their customers. So it doesn't always have to be an incentive, as in a discount. That definitely works.

Brendan (02:56):

What about you Gem?

Gemma (02:57):

Well, I think it's another touchpoint, and we know that for any kind of advertising or marketing strategy to be successful you need multiple touchpoints. So it supports all of your other platforms, your advertising, your website, and everything else that you're doing. It's another touchpoint to get to those existing customers or potential customers that have just signed up for a list.

Brendan (03:23):

Yeah. So true. It's interesting, because, I mean, we can use April Ford as an example. People often sign up for a digital audit in our business and they get onto our list and then get our monthly EDM. They can sit on that list for years and then I find all of a sudden they'll start opening more regularly and returning because we can see it in HubSpot, which is the CRM system we use, opening email, EDMs we've sent out. And April makes me call them back. So anyone is opening an email regularly I have to call, which is fun, but it's a good example of where you're building a list and that list can return a client, like a customer, to you months, years later. Doesn't just have to be they signed up today and they become a client tomorrow.

Brendan (04:07):

What about in eCommerce, because obviously, that's something you guys work in a lot? People are obviously buying a product and then they're ending up on a list, and then what sort of stuff are they getting sent?

Madi (04:15):

Well, it gives you an opportunity to, I guess, cross-sell, upsell, send them reminders of when a product is back in stock, suggest different products, let them know about new collection launches, sales or promotions, and offer them birthday offers, all sorts of stuff.

Brendan (04:39):

That's a good point because, Mads, you've got clients who do a heap of pre-release, Hey?

Madi (04:43):

Yes, I do.

Brendan (04:43):

And that pre-release sells out pretty much straight away every time they send an email out for it?

Madi (04:48):

Well it goes off, yeah. It's one of the biggest revenue streams in their marketing strategy.

Brendan (04:53):

Big pillar for them.

Madi (04:54):

Just to add to what Gemma's saying, it increases the overall lifetime value of your customer. It's one of the ways to increase the overall value because once you've got them in your list, if it's done well, you can encourage them to continue purchasing and stay a loyal customer.

Brendan (05:13):

So in terms of the cost of email marketing compared to say advertising, because this is one thing that a lot of businesses don't necessarily think about when they think about email marketing the cost of email marketing is significantly less than the cost of say, continuously having to run ads. And obviously, you still have to run ads, but ultimately if you are spending a bucket load of money on client acquisition or customer acquisition and then they go into a list, when you sell through that list it becomes inherently cheaper to convert them to a customer than what it would be if you're continually serving ads to them. Is that a fair comment?

Madi (05:44):

Think it's true in some cases. And as a really general rule, if and when you are converting off your emails, and that happens when you're doing it right, yes, it works out cheaper than your advertising budget.

Brendan (05:57):

And this is something we're talking specifically about selling someone something, so e-com is probably more geared towards that. But ultimately email marketing doesn't just have to be sales-based emails, it can be automations as well, which is a big part of what you are working with a lot of clients on. So what is an example of an automation that you set up? And why would you do it as well?

Madi (06:22):

So I like to think about it logically and in order of how someone will receive these. So one of the main ones that everyone would be really familiar with, regardless of why you're signing up to a list is a welcome flow. So what that is it's basically an automated email that comes after you've subscribed. So they're offering an incentive. That's usually where you receive that. You definitely don't need it to be an incentive email. It can definitely just be a touchpoint with your customer to add value. A few of the businesses that we do this for, it's a good chance to include more information about the business. So whether you include links to their blogs or their FAQs, or let them know how the business works, let them know how to do business with them, that's a really good opportunity to warm them up to your business a little bit more in a welcome flow. Even if someone is offering an incentive, we would generally have more than one email in the flow to include those additional things that I was just talking about as well.

Brendan (07:24):

When you say welcome flow, are you talking about it could be two, three or four or five emails, or something like that?

Madi (07:28):

Yeah. It can be. For sure.

Brendan (07:29):

And is that relevant to what it is that you are selling?

Madi (07:32):

Yeah.

Brendan (07:32):

So let's say it's a medical procedure, then the content of those emails are going to be very, very different to someone who's buying a piece of furniture, right?

Madi (07:39):

Yes.

Brendan (07:40):

So if we talk about email marketing, yes, it can be a sales-based tool, but it also can be a delivery vehicle for information.

Madi (07:48):

Yeah. And that comes back to, I guess my one reason that I gave before, why people should do email marketing is, these are people who are actively seeking to know more, or engage with you more or have that additional touchpoint, like what Gem said. So it's the perfect opportunity to give them that information because they want it, they want to know about it.

Brendan (08:09):

Actually, that's an interesting segue into data segmentation, because this is something that you obviously use heavily in advertising, Gem. Madi is saying when someone wants something more or you're talking about user behaviour, how does segmentation tie into that?

Gemma (08:23):

Well, inside of Klaviyo you can obviously create all of the segments you can possibly dream up of what someone has done on a website, or viewed, or touched, or added to cart, or what form they've filled in, how many days since they were last on the website, whatever, you can create it. And we integrate all of those segments of people over to advertising platforms and then we can use that to get really granular and target the right type of people with the right creative, the right copy, and make sure we're serving the right ads to people that are currently looking at that product. Or we know it's been so long since they've been on the website and they need a reminder to get back there, or we just get really targeted with what we're serving.

Brendan (09:18):

So you can really integrate your advertising and your email marketing and how users are using the website together to create an overall user experience.

Gemma (09:26):

Yeah, that's right. So it makes advertising a lot more personalised.

Brendan (09:30):

You can do that with other things, like HubSpot, for example, which costs a lot more than say, Klaviyo. But you can't really do that with Mailchimp. It's not as responsive as that is. It's not as powerful.

Madi (09:39):

It doesn't collect as much data, audience data, on the website. You can definitely create segments and live lists and things like that with Mailchimp, but it's just not as-

Brendan (09:50):

Sophisticated?

Madi (09:50):

Detailed or sophisticated as Klaviyo. It also doesn't have the same connections with Ad Manager and all of that sort of stuff.

Gemma (09:58):

Yeah, the integration is a lot less user-friendly.

Madi (10:01):

You can connect lists two ways, but it's just not as dynamic.

Brendan (10:05):

It's interesting though, Mailchimp is probably the most popular, probably because it was free up until a certain point, in terms of the number of people on your list.

Madi (10:12):

Well, and it's been around for a while.

Brendan (10:14):

Yeah. True.

Madi (10:15):

And it's got a really easy email builder and all of that sort of stuff. But I think there are more platforms that are catching up to it.

Brendan (10:21):

But if you've got a half decent size list and you're using Mailchimp, you're probably missing a lot of opportunity purely because it just isn't a powerful enough system to do what you could be doing, versus if you had it, say in Klaviyo. Correct?

Madi (10:32):

Yeah. 100%.

Brendan (10:33):

So first-party data is something we've been talking heaps about lately, and obviously there are a heap of changes coming up. iOS was updated, which took away a heap of accesses in terms of first-party data to advertisers. Googles removing cookies. Privacy is obviously getting tighter and tighter and tighter. Gem, obviously you can use an email marketing system, like Klaviyo, however you want to say it, for first-party data collection. Right?

Gemma (10:56):

Yeah. That's right. So you invest in a platform, like Klaviyo, and put it on your website. Then it starts generating data and tracking the events that people are doing on your website. So that's things like what pages they've viewed, whether they've added something to cart, what product collections they've viewed, all that sort of stuff. And then it's giving you some of the power back that we used to rely on third-party data for. So third-party data are tools like a Facebook pixel, which is owned by Facebook, which you put on your website. It generates the data for you. You can see that data and the stuff that you've tracked inside that platform only. Whereas with first-party data, with a tool like Klaviyo, you're generating data on your website. And you own that data inside the platform, which you can then integrate with your other marketing and advertising platforms, like Google, for instance.

Brendan (12:01):

Yeah. Right. So you can collect data using Klaviyo and then run different ad types and ad sequences using Google Ads, using the data segmentation from your first-party data collection.

Gemma (12:13):

Yeah, that's right.

Brendan (12:14):

That's pretty cool. That's very cool. And actually, when you said events, what do you mean by that? Let's assume someone doesn't know what an event is on the website.

Gemma (12:20):

So it's basically an action that someone has done on your website.

Brendan (12:27):

Like clicked a button?

Gemma (12:28):

Yeah, clicked a button, viewed a certain page, viewed a certain collection if we're talking about eCommerce. It's allowing you to see what parts of a website a customer has interacted with.

Brendan (12:41):

Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. And then we've talked a little bit about Klaviyo, but also we should just mention there are different options, but we do have a personal preference which we'll talk about in a second.

Brendan (12:52):

Mads, you obviously have done a heap of work with HubSpot before. April has done a heap of work with HubSpot, Salesforce, Keap, or Infusionsoft is what it used to be known. Obviously, there's Mailchimp. If we talk about some of those platforms, first of all, what's the cost difference between Klaviyo and HubSpot?

Madi (13:10):

HubSpot is much more expensive per number of contacts than what Klaviyo is.

Brendan (13:19):

How much? If we were to compare HubSpot and Klaviyo, how much a month would someone spend typically on a HubSpot subscription versus a Klaviyo subscription if they had 20K in their list?

Madi (13:30):

So Klaviyo would be hundreds, and HubSpot would be thousands.

Brendan (13:35):

Yeah, right, So it's massive.

Madi (13:37):

Yeah. Per contact cost between HubSpot and Klaviyo is so different, especially for the subscription you would need in HubSpot to be able to achieve the same kind of automation that you can do in Klaviyo or the same segmentation in Klaviyo. To be honest, I would only really ever recommend HubSpot marketing if someone was using HubSpot as their sales pipeline.

Brendan (14:03):

Yeah. And if we think of HubSpot, Salesforce, even Keap, in those similar realms.

Madi (14:10):

CRM. Yeah.

Brendan (14:12):

Obviously very, very powerful CRMs, but very, very expensive for what they are. And for the purposes of email marketing, they're actually probably not the best fit. They might be a better CRM, but they actually aren't better at email marketing. Is that a fair point?

Madi (14:26):

Exactly. Yeah. So I think because they've been built around a sales process or a lead follow-up or a lead funnel, however, you want to call it, they're pretty limited with the kind of things that you could do based around people's actions on a website. So you can definitely trigger things in HubSpot if you've got someone in your CRM, based on how many times they've visited a page or a website or anything along those lines, but you can't get as granular as what you can with Klaviyo, with this person's been to my website 10 times in 30 days, so I know they're keen.

Brendan (15:03):

They're engaged.

Madi (15:04):

They're engaged. So the automation that you can achieve in HubSpot and the data that you can use in HubSpot is definitely built around a sales process, a lead flow, rather than accommodating anything to do with eCommerce. Whereas, I think Klaviyo, you can do both. You can design those lead follow-ups within Klaviyo, but you can also get way more granular with how people are behaving on your website and when you follow them up, and all of that sort of stuff.

Brendan (15:34):

And we're not exactly the Klaviyo cheer squad here because obviously we do a heap of work in HubSpot as well, but when it comes to this sort of thing, like email marketing, I think it's fair to say that Klaviyo is the best in class right now, and is going to be for a long, long time because they're investing so much in the platform and will probably squash Mailchimp as the platform of choice for a lot of businesses moving forward. Would you agree with that, Gem?

Gemma (15:57):

Yeah, 100%.

Brendan (15:58):

Because it provides almost that linkage between data segmentation, advertising, email marketing and automation, that just is not offered in something like Mailchimp. It's not really even offered in the same way. You can't send really beautiful emails out of Salesforce, for example. Or back in the day, when Keap was Infusionsoft it had some pretty cool automations in there, but for the cost of what you've got to spend on those platforms now, I don't think it compares to what you can do or achieve using something like Klaviyo, which you're right, someone's only going to spend 100 to 300. If you had a big list you might spend a thousand bucks a month, but if you've got a list North of 100,000 or 200,000 people, you might spend $1,000 a month. Is that about right? Somewhere thereabouts?

Brendan (16:43):

So the reality is the cost versus return is so much better with Klaviyo, and it would be our recommendation to most clients for what they need for their marketing needs.

Madi (16:52):

Absolutely.

Brendan (16:53):

So just want to quickly talk about list size, or lists or data. And Madi, in particular, you cop this like I do, where we catch up with a new client and they're like, I've got this giant list. They've got this huge database and it's literally covered in cobwebs. It's like 20,000 people that have collected over 20 years in business that they haven't sent anything to for years and they're hoping to dump it into a new email marketing system and send something out. (a) Is that a good idea? And (b) What should you do if it's not a good idea?

Madi (17:22):

So you have to reengage them in some way. Sometimes we'll suggest that we put them into Ads as a list so we can start warming them up.

Brendan (17:30):

So drop the list into Ads first, get an engaged audience, and then actually start emailing them.

Madi (17:35):

Yeah. That's one of the things that I would suggest we do. Because you still own that data, we can still do stuff with it. When you put a large list into a new platform you are at risk of being flagged as junk and spam. I would suggest cleaning your list before putting it into a new platform, which is usually what I recommend. So before actually moving it work out which of your contacts are still engaged, or have engaged with you in the past, or have done business with you in the past, and trim off the rest. People don't like doing that.

Brendan (18:11):

No, they don't, because they judge their success based on the size of that.

Madi (18:14):

Yeah. And I mean, use the rest of that data to create an Ad audience or a Lookalike audience, or something along those lines.

Brendan (18:22):

So still utilise it, just utilise it differently.

Madi (18:22):

Still utilise it. Or use your old platform to try and re-engage with them before you put them into your new platform. You could basically do a blanket campaign to try and get people to reengage with you. So being Klaviyo's cheer squad, again, they have some really good suggestions around basically re-engaging a cold audience and suggestions around what types of campaigns you can serve them in an email that will get them clicking, and back to your website, and all of that sort of stuff, because then that's re-engaging people and they're not cold and dead anymore. However, I think that it's important to basically only carry over contacts that you know are warm still before you start with a new platform.

Brendan (19:07):

So don't put dirty data in your database.

Madi (19:08):

Yes.

Brendan (19:09):

And is it about the size of your list, or what you do with it?

Madi (19:12):

Both.

Brendan (19:13):

Okay. Tell me more.

Madi (19:14):

No, it's what you do with it.

Brendan (19:16):

Right. Okay. But realistically, there is a certain tipping point where you start to see a really strong return. You think of the difference when someone's got, say 2,000 people on a list versus someone who's got 100,000 people on a list. What they achieve, particularly in eCommerce, what they achieve out at list is mind-bogglingly different, right?

Madi (19:31):

Yeah, 100%. So comparatively, I'll talk about them very generally. I won't name names, but we've got two eCommerce brands. They sell different products, but they're both still eCommerce. One has a 16 to 20,000 list. The other has closer to 100,000. The one with 16 to 20,000, I don't know exactly where it is at the moment, it grows really fast. They will get off their emails anywhere from five grand to 10 grand a fortnight in direct sales from emails because they have a really, really quality list, and what they see in their list is exactly what they want to see. So it's around new product releases and sales and things like that. And they have told these people that if they subscribe that's what they'll get. So it's super relevant to them. Whereas the other one that has a larger list, the list isn't bad, it's still a really, really great list and it's very engaged, but they just don't get as much of a return in sales directly from emails. However, it does help our ads. So I mean, there's that cross-marketing benefit.

Brendan (20:44):

So in that case, the benefit for that client with the big list is actually generating sales off the ads, not off the list.

Madi (20:51):

Yeah. It's that other touch point that helps other marketing activities.

Brendan (20:55):

Which to throw another client in the mix there, there's another client we have, who's got a hundred and something thousand, maybe 150,000, something like that, on their list. And they would do hundreds of thousands of dollars every EDM they send out for their list. Super engaged audience, low-value product, but something that you can buy multiple times a year. I like how you're trying to figure out who it is.

Brendan (21:15):

And it's not actually one of your clients, anyways. But I mean, it's a good example where we use a lot. Yes, we sell off their ads, but we also grow their list massively. And the big benefit for them is they're growing probably a third of their revenue gap comes out of their list now, as opposed to relying so heavily on paid advertising or organic or whatever it might be. So it's horses for courses, but at the end of the day, it's not the size of the list is what you do with it that counts.

Brendan (21:42):

And then, I guess the other thing that I want to understand is from a reporting and a data perspective, like analysing is something working or not, if we stick to Klaviyo, what sort of data can you pull out off the back of it? You look for different stuff when you look in the back of Klaviyo, when you're running ads, Gem. What are you sort of looking for?

Gemma (22:00):

I'm basically looking for segments I can create to back up and support the exact same segments that I would want to use in advertising platforms where I've lost data to third-party data issues.

Brendan (22:17):

Yeah. Right. Okay, cool.

Gemma (22:17):

So that can change all of the time. As an advertising strategy changes I then jump back into Klaviyo and create new segments to match whatever data I need for ads.

Brendan (22:30):

Okay. What about you, Mads?

Madi (22:31):

I do similar, but a lot of the time I play around with what segments I can create. So for every client it's different. So an engaged audience for someone who has a product that you might only buy every six months as opposed to every fortnight, their life cycle of what you would call an engaged audience is obviously a larger timeframe. So a lot of the segmenting we do is what has this person done in this amount of time and what do we call that person? So I do a lot of trialing with that sort of stuff between the different clients that we look at and basically try to match that up with what Gem is doing with ads to make sure that we've got automations running to those particular segments, and it's relating back to what ads those people would be getting as well.

Brendan (23:24):

So interesting, because talking to you two reminds me of how much performance marketing is so much of what you guys do, where it's literally driving every single sale, every single cent that you can squeeze out of a customer. Whereas if I look at some other areas in the business and we pull in say, Kyle, who is an account executive, and talk to him about how he's using email marketing he's often using it to build value in a brand because he's trying to position the price of a product to an audience. So it's a different objective. But it's just interesting to talk about the different ways that you use it and how someone might use for performance marketing and someone else might use it for brand equity purposes. I guess, as an agency, we use Klaviyo ourselves. We've used HubSpot as a CRM. We've used Mailchimp before. April has worked on gigantic clients in Salesforce. In fact, April's background was all about building and implementing CRMs in highly complicated automation sequences in email marketing. That was what she spent the first 10 years of her career doing.

Brendan (24:21):

I think when we look at where we're at today, email marketing has become not popular again, but more important than ever, if that makes sense because for the last few years people have just been so addicted to social, running Facebook and Instagram ads and had some great success there. They've forgotten about email marketing, and particularly with the younger audiences. Whereas I think if a lot of the older audiences have gotten, when I say older I don't mean old, I mean, someone who might be 50, who owns a decent-sized company, who believes in list building because he knows that a list will outlive a trend, and that list is an asset that they can grow on year on year out. But I look at what we can do now with email marketing systems in terms of the integrations with advertising, obviously segmentation and then even behavioural responses based on what they're doing on a website, whether it be email, even SMS, because obviously, you can fire that out of Klaviyo, for example.

Brendan (25:15):

These things all sound quite complicated to the average business owner or marketing manager. So when it comes to simplicity, we talked about a welcome sequence before, but a lot of the time you're just putting three, five or seven-part automation sequences in place for clients, Mads. It can be as simple as that and have a tangible impact. Is that something you would recommend for a client who isn't doing anything currently email marketing-wise?

Madi (25:40):

Would I recommend a welcome flow?

Brendan (25:43):

Well, just a simple welcome flow. And then keeping, I guess what they're doing simple. It doesn't have to be hugely complex. Doesn't have to be like this mad matrix of automations, does it?

Madi (25:54):

So if I was to recommend or set up a really, I guess entry level strategy, I would 100% have a welcome flow if we're driving lead capture, which we would be if we're suggesting to do email marketing. So I think that's really important because it's your first touch point with that person who's deciding to join your list. Second to that, if they have a website, which pretty much every single business should and does whether they're service base or eCommerce, I really see the power in an abandoned browse sequence. An abandoned browse is basically if one of your subscribers has gone onto your website X amount of times, it could even just be once, but they don't check out or they don't do whatever it is your conversion is, which that could be a lead inquiry or something along those lines, you basically automate an email that goes to them and says, "Hey, we saw you were here."

Madi (26:53):

If it was eCommerce, you can dynamically pull through the category or the products that they've looked at and basically say, "Hey, we saw you were on our site. This is what you're looking at. Do you want to look at it again?" It's also a really good chance to highlight your point of difference and your unique selling points at that stage, to basically convince them to do business with you. If you were a service-based business, same thing. It's a good chance to give them additional information about your business that helps them to make a decision. So we often put testimonials, social proof, all of that sort of stuff in these types of emails, because we know that when someone's on the site they're obviously interested and you want to capture them at that point. We see a lot of conversions or re-engagement from these types of emails. And again, it's one of the more basic email automations that you can set up.

Madi (27:47):

So at a minimum, I would suggest welcome and abandon browse, but then also a meaningful newsletter strategy. So depending on what the business is, who your audience is, what you're selling, you could have a newsletter strategy that goes on a weekly basis, fortnightly, monthly, every two months, every six months, whatever it might be, but making sure that it's meaningful because if you are consistent with your emailing, your list will stay engaged.

Brendan (28:17):

The only thing I would probably add to that is once someone becomes a customer using something like Klaviyo as an educational or a user experience, customer experience platform, is also I think critical. So when someone's bought something, notifying them, (a) saying, thank you for the business. And then also providing relevant information as to-

Madi (28:38):

Post-purchase?

Brendan (28:39):

Yeah. Post-purchase or post engagement. What's going to happen next when it's likely to arrive, what the next steps are, and what information do they need to provide for say onboarding in our case, or for someone else who might be preparing for surgery they're going to have if it's something medical. Or any kind of education you can provide a client post-purchase to make the user experience more enjoyable and educational for the client, I think is also a critical component. So childcare's a good example where, say someone enrols, what happens next? It's a really, really, really great place to house information and educate and communicate with your customer base as well.

Brendan (29:16):

And then on the advertising side of things, Gem, what would be some of the minimum requirements you would want to see someone do from an ad perspective if they were using something like Klaviyo?

Gemma (29:25):

Just basically automations and flows that support that end user action that we're trying to achieve in advertising. So that might be getting someone to complete a purchase, so thinking about those things like an abandoned cart, email, all of that sort of stuff that's aligned with the end-

Brendan (29:45):

And to make life really, really easy, what we've done is if someone is interested in learning more about how email marketing can help them or wants to put its particular system in place, I mean, obviously we're going to recommend Klaviyo for a lot of clients because this is the best option. We have a really simple service you can go through where we'll do a discovery session, understand exactly what you need to be doing, and then advise you on which email flows or sequences you need to put in place. We'll build them out for you and even do all the creative and design as well.

Brendan (30:11):

So if someone does want to learn more about that, just jump on the website. My details are there. I'm happy to help you in any way I can. And guys, that's been really, really awesome. I really appreciate your time and look forward to chatting with you next time.

Gemma (30:22):

Thanks Brendan.

Madi (30:22):

Bye.

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